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Women’s History Month Series – In Conversation with Michelle Burton

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HR Spotlight Interview

Michelle Burton

Women's History Month Interview Series

In Conversation with Michelle Burton

Our special guest today is Michelle Burton, founder of North Star People & Leadership Advisory. With over 20 years of experience in people, culture, and leadership strategy, Michelle helps scaling businesses transition from founder-driven operations to sustainable, resilient models. A third-generation HR professional raised in a farming family, she brings a uniquely grounded, systems-thinking approach to the corporate world.

In this interview, Michelle challenges the stereotypes that frequently pigeonhole women in HR as the “office mom” or “policy police,” advocating instead for the role of the strategic business architect. She explains why the 2026 workforce is currently “recalibrating,” shares her structured approach to fixing the notorious “broken rung” of leadership, and reveals why she wants to ban the buzzword “bandwidth” forever.

Thank you for joining us, Michelle! If you could clear the air right now, what’s the one thing you wish every employee understood about your job?

Michelle Burton:

If I could clear the air on one thing, it’s this: HR’s role is not about enforcing rules for the sake of it; it’s about enabling organizations and their people to perform at their best as the business grows.

At its core, HR creates the structure, clarity, and leadership capability that allow teams to succeed in a scaling environment. My role is to balance the needs of the organization with the growth, well-being, and engagement of its employees.

From the outside, some decisions may feel transactional. But behind every policy, process, or difficult conversation is an effort to create fairness, consistency, and stability across the business.

It’s also important to understand that HR isn’t there to take sides. Our responsibility is to steward the long-term health of the organization by protecting the business while ensuring employees experience an environment where they can contribute and grow.

When HR functions well, it becomes a strategic driver that helps organizations move from reactive people management to intentional leadership, which is essential to scaling companies.

Nobody plans to go into HR. They usually get dragged into it because they’re good at listening. Is that true for you? What was the moment you realized you were meant to do this?

Michelle Burton:

Listening is certainly foundational, but for me the turning point was realizing how deeply people strategy shapes an organization’s ability to grow.

 

Early in my career, I supported a team navigating significant change as the business expanded. What became clear was that the challenge wasn’t just operational, it was structural and leadership related. Roles were evolving, expectations were unclear, and leaders were learning how to manage at a new level.

Being part of the process that helped bring clarity, strengthen leadership capability, and stabilize the team showed me the real impact HR can have. That was the moment I realized HR isn’t just about supporting employees, it’s about helping organizations mature and scale in a sustainable way.

That intersection of people, leadership, and growth is what drew me fully into this field.

HR requires a mix of skills—part lawyer, part therapist, part data analyst. If you strip away the job title, what’s the one superpower you rely on most when the office is on fire?

Michelle Burton:

Strategic Perspective.

In moments of conflict or crisis, it’s easy for organizations to become reactive. My role is to step back and look at the broader system, what’s actually driving the issue, what the organization is trying to achieve, and how the decision we make today will affect the culture and leadership environment long term.

That perspective allows me to move beyond simply solving the immediate problem and instead strengthen the systems around it, whether that’s leadership capability, role clarity, or decision-making structures.

The ability to connect people challenges to broader business strategy becomes one of the most valuable tools HR can bring to the table.

If you could describe the current mood of the workforce in 2026 using just one word, what would it be and why?

Michelle Burton:

Recalibrating.

Over the past several years, employees and organizations alike have experienced significant shifts, from remote work debates to economic uncertainty and evolving expectations around leadership and culture.

What we’re seeing now is a recalibration. Employees are reassessing what they value in work, while organizations are redefining what effective leadership, productivity, and culture look like in a modern workplace.

For HR leaders, this moment is less about returning to old models and more about helping organizations design workplaces that are clearer, more intentional, and better aligned with how people actually work today.

The conversation has shifted to the ‘glass cliff,’ where women are promoted during times of crisis. Have you ever felt that pressure to be the fixer in a broken system?

Michelle Burton:

It’s a dynamic many leaders, irrespective of gender identity, experience at different points in their careers.

Often those opportunities arise during moments of instability or transformation, when organizations need someone who can step in, stabilize the environment, and create a path forward.

While that pressure can be significant, I tend to view those moments through a strategic lens. Challenging environments often reveal the underlying structural issues within an organization including but not limited to unclear leadership layers, decision-making bottlenecks, or misaligned expectations.

When approached thoughtfully, those situations become opportunities to build stronger systems, strengthen leadership capability, and create more sustainable foundations for growth.

In many ways, those are the moments where HR leadership can have its greatest long-term impact.

Women in HR are often pigeonholed as the “office mom” or the “policy police.” How do you dismantle those stereotypes and ensure you’re seen as a strategic business architect first?

Michelle Burton:

The most effective way to dismantle that stereotype is by consistently operating at the level of business strategy, not just policy administration.

In my work, I focus on helping leadership teams think about how people strategy directly supports growth, whether that’s building the next layer of leadership, clarifying decision-making structures, or designing systems that allow teams to scale without chaos.

When HR is positioned as the function that brings clarity to how work happens, how leaders lead, and how organizations evolve as they grow, the conversation naturally shifts. You are no longer seen as the person enforcing rules, you’re seen as someone helping architect the organization itself.

HR professionals are the first responders of the corporate world, handling grief, layoffs, and conflict. What is your protocol for protecting your own peace after absorbing everyone else’s stress?

Michelle Burton:

One of the most important disciplines in HR is emotional boundaries.

You have to be deeply empathetic while also recognizing that you cannot personally carry every situation you support. My approach is to treat difficult situations with full presence in the moment by listening intently, responding thoughtfully, and ensuring people feel heard, but once the decision is made or the conversation is complete, I deliberately step back.

I also rely on reflection and perspective. In HR, the work is meaningful precisely because it involves real human experiences. Protecting your own well-being allows you to continue showing up with clarity and composure for the next challenge.

Without naming names, tell us about a time you had to deliver tough news that taught you something profound about leadership or empathy.

Michelle Burton:

Early in my career, I had to communicate a restructuring that impacted a small but close-knit team. Naturally, the immediate focus was on the operational change, but what stayed with me most was the emotional response from employees who felt uncertainty about their future and their value within the organization.

What that experience taught me is that leadership during difficult moments isn’t just about the message, it’s about the dignity with which people experience the process. Clarity, honesty, and respect matter enormously.

Since then, I’ve approached difficult conversations with the understanding that how organizations treat people in their hardest moments defines the culture far more than how they operate when things are easy.

Have you ever felt pressure to soften your delivery or be “nice” in ways male counterparts may not? How do you balance empathy with the need to be firm on policy?

Michelle Burton:

There can sometimes be an expectation that women in leadership communicate in a softer or more accommodating way. Over time, I’ve learned that empathy and clarity are not mutually exclusive.

My approach is to be direct, transparent, and respectful. People generally respond well when expectations and decisions are communicated clearly, even if the message is difficult.

Empathy comes from understanding the human side of the situation, while firmness comes from ensuring consistency and fairness across the organization. When both are present, the conversation tends to feel balanced rather than confrontational.

The age-old tension is between people and profits. Can you share an example where you had to advocate for something that didn’t have an immediate ROI but was critical for culture?

Michelle Burton:

There are moments when investing in people systems doesn’t produce an immediate financial return, but it creates the conditions for long-term performance.

One example was advocating for leadership development during a period when the organization was scaling quickly. At the time, some viewed it as a discretionary expense. However, the reality was that many of the organization’s challenges such as communication breakdowns, decision delays and team friction were rooted in leaders who had been promoted quickly without the tools to lead effectively.

Investing in leadership capability didn’t show up as an instant ROI line item, but it strengthened decision-making, improved team cohesion, and ultimately allowed the organization to scale more sustainably.

Sometimes the most valuable investments in an organization are the ones that build the leadership and cultural foundations for long-term growth.

We talk a lot about gut feeling in hiring. How are you using data to challenge biases—your own or hiring managers’—when it comes to promoting women and underrepresented talent?

Michelle Burton:

Gut instinct can be valuable, but when it becomes the primary decision-making tool in hiring or promotions, it often reinforces existing biases.

The way to counter that is by introducing structured decision frameworks. That means clearly defined competencies for each role, standardized interview questions, established career path frameworks and tracking promotion and hiring patterns over time. When you look at the data on who is being considered, who is advancing, and where people stall, you start to see patterns that aren’t always visible in individual decisions.

For leadership teams, that data becomes a mirror. It shifts the conversation from personal judgment to evidence-based decision-making. The goal isn’t to eliminate human judgment, but to ensure that judgment is applied consistently and fairly so that talented people aren’t overlooked simply because they don’t fit an unspoken mold.

Statistically, women often get stuck at the first step up to manager. As an HR leader, what is one systemic change you’ve implemented—or want to—that actually fixes this broken rung?

Michelle Burton:

One of the biggest barriers at that first promotion level is that organizations often rely on informal sponsorship and visibility to identify future managers. The problem is that informal systems tend to benefit the people who are already closest to leadership.

A systemic solution is to make leadership readiness more transparent and intentional. That means defining what ‘ready for leadership’ actually looks like through clear leadership competencies, leadership expectations, and development opportunities that employees can actively pursue.

Several years ago, I developed a Leadership Potential Assessment and Feedback Report that I still use as a practical tool in organizations. I have refined this leadership potential assessment over the years across the changing business landscapes. The purpose of the assessment is to move the conversation about leadership potential from subjective impressions to more structured evaluation. The tool evaluates emerging leaders across a set of core leadership dimensions.

What makes this tool valuable is the feedback component. Instead of simply labelling someone as a ‘high potential leader’ or ‘not ready’, the report highlights specific strengths and development areas tied to leadership expectations. It provides clear insights into where they already demonstrate leadership behaviours and where they may need further development. The report also outlines practical development actions that help individuals intentionally build the skills required for their first, or next leadership role.

For more seasoned leaders, I administer a Leadership Effectiveness Analysis and Feedback Report. While the Leadership Potential Assessment focuses on readiness for a first leadership role, the Leadership Effectiveness Analysis looks at how leaders are actually showing up once they are in the role and how their leadership is experienced by others.

When organizations create structured leadership pathways rather than relying on informal nominations, it opens the door for more people to see themselves as potential leaders and to prepare for that role in a meaningful way. It transforms leadership development from something exclusive into something accessible.

What is the biggest myth about working in HR that you wish would die?

Michelle Burton:

The biggest myth is that HR is simply an administrative or compliance function.

In reality, HR is one of the few functions that has visibility into how the entire organization operates, how leaders lead, how teams collaborate, and where structural issues are slowing the business down.

When HR operates strategically, it becomes a critical partner in organizational design. It helps leadership teams think about how to scale decision-making, develop stronger leaders, and build cultures that support sustained performance. That’s a very different role than the traditional perception of HR as just managing policies or people administration.

If you could ban one corporate buzzword forever, what would it be?

Michelle Burton:

Probably the word ‘bandwidth.’

It’s often used as shorthand for workload, but it can obscure the real conversation organizations need to have; which is about priorities, resources, and leadership clarity.

When teams constantly say they don’t have the bandwidth, it’s usually a signal that expectations aren’t aligned or the organization has outgrown its current structure. Instead of relying on buzzwords, leaders should focus on creating clearer priorities, clear communication through ALL levels of the organization and more sustainable ways of working.

HR is often described as a thankless job. You’re the villain when things go wrong and invisible when things go right. Why do you stay? What is the moment that reminds you this is why you do this?

Michelle Burton:

For me, the most meaningful moments happen when you see the long-term impact of the work.

It might be a leader who once struggled with managing their team but, after developing the right skills and support, becomes someone their employees genuinely respect and trust. Or an organization that once operated in constant reactive mode finding a rhythm and clarity as its leadership  and operational structure matures.

Those moments don’t always make headlines, but they represent real transformation. Seeing individuals grow and organizations become healthier, more effective environments for people to work; that’s what makes the work worthwhile.

“Empathy and clarity are not mutually exclusive.”

That powerful insight from Michelle Burton is a masterclass in modern leadership. Her approach reminds us that true empathy isn’t about softening the truth to avoid discomfort; it is about treating people with dignity, transparency, and respect, especially during an organization’s most difficult moments.

As we celebrate Women’s History Month, Michelle’s dedication to building stronger leaders and healthier organizational systems serves as a vital blueprint for the future of work. Thank you, Michelle, for sharing your strategic vision and grounded wisdom.

Michelle Burton is the founder of North Star People & Leadership Advisory, a developing advisory focused on helping scaling businesses strengthen leadership capability and align people strategy with growth. She is currently establishing the firm to partner with founders and executive teams navigating the complexities of expansion, including building the next layer of leadership and creating clearer organizational structures. Michelle has more than 20 years in people, culture and leadership strategy. A third-generation HR professional raised in a farming family, she brings a grounded work ethic and practical approach to developing leaders and building resilient organisations. Michelle’s work centers on practical, strategic guidance that helps companies transition from founder-driven operations to more sustainable, scalable leadership models that support long-term growth.

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The Warning Signs: Spotting and Addressing the “Foot Out the Door” Syndrome

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The Warning Signs: Spotting and Addressing the "Foot Out the Door" Syndrome

In an era of relentless layoffs, economic volatility, and eroded job security, a quiet survival strategy has gained momentum: “career cushioning”—secretly interviewing while still employed. 

Is it disloyalty, or simply smart self-preservation? 

On HRSpotlight, CEOs, founders, recruiters, and HR innovators offer candid, no-nonsense perspectives on this modern workplace reality. 

They explore why high performers quietly update their LinkedIn and polish resumes long before giving notice, and what it reveals about trust, growth, and retention. 

More importantly, they share battle-tested approaches leaders can take when they spot the signs—without resorting to surveillance, guilt trips, or denial. 

From proactive career conversations and transparent growth paths to removing daily friction, recognizing contributions early, and building environments where people no longer feel the need to hedge, these experts show that the antidote to cushioning isn’t control—it’s connection, clarity, and genuine investment in people. 

Discover how forward-thinking leaders are turning a symptom of insecurity into an opportunity for stronger loyalty and performance.

Read on!

Steven Lowell
Sr. Reverse Recruiter & Career Coach, Find My Profession

There is absolutely nothing wrong with “career cushioning”.

In fact, a 2022 survey showed that job seekers who were already employed were hired 45% faster than unemployed candidates.

It is necessary to continue searching in order to keep building your network, just in case of an unexpected layoff or market downturn.

If a leader notices that their best staff seem to have one foot out the door, there are 3 approaches to dealing with this:

– Say nothing and let things play out while learning from the actions the staff took up until they left.

– Sit the staff down and have a heart-to-heart about the possible reasons they decided to look around. The only reason I caution against this approach is because it might create anxiety or conflict for the staff, now that they know their boss is aware of their possible departure. Tiktok and Reddit have become hot zones for, “I can’t believe my boss!” stories.

– Make a gesture or series of gestures that shows the staff, “I want you to stay around for a while.”

Using an example from my career, at Find My Profession, I suggested hiring someone back in 2021 and I knew she was amazing. I knew she would leave sooner than later, if the job became boring. So, I suggested that she become my boss and I would step aside. The gesture, along with the new challenges, gave her reason to stick around for several years, as the company grew.

There are some who believe that staying in charge or growing a business requires tough, unyielding leadership.

However, making moves to take care of staff, in the name of growing the business, usually turns into a win-win situation.

Career Cushioning Is Smart Self-Preservation

Sreekrishnaa Srikanthan
Head of Growth, Finofo

I get why people do career cushioning, especially when jobs can feel unstable.

What worked for our team at Finofo was simple quarterly chats about where people’s heads were at.

It took a while, but folks got way more comfortable talking about what they actually wanted next.

Now when I see our best people looking around, I just talk to them. We thank them for their work here and get behind whatever they want to do next, instead of acting like a job search is a betrayal. 

Open Chats Stop Secret Job Searches

Andrew Geranin
Head of Product, Resume

Career cushioning is not disloyal; it is a self-preservation behaviour in the face of market uncertainty, not an indication of dissatisfaction.

In the current turbulent world, intelligent professionals desire to remain prepared, and that should not be interpreted as disloyalty.

To leaders who see the best talent going adrift, it is not about guilt but about being clear and developing.

Conduct actual discussions on career pathing, skill building, and contribution.
When a person feels challenged, noticed, and is moving forward, they will hardly continue to search.

The exit behaviour generally begins much earlier than the updating of resumes.

Cushioning Signals Growth Gaps Early

Eli Zimmer
CEO, Luxaire HVAC Services

It’s definitely something that happens frequently.

Ideally though, of course, you don’t want it to be happening in your business with your employees. You of course want them to stay because employee retention is so important.

So if you feel as though your best employees seem like they have a foot out the door, it could be wise to pull them aside and ask them for feedback.

Don’t be accusatory or make them feel like they are in trouble for what they are doing – approach it from an angle of wanting to make things better for them however you can.

Ask for Feedback, Don’t Accuse

Ryan Dosenberry
CEO, Crushing REI

Career cushioning feels more like a wake-up call to me than a threat.

I’ve found that keeping good people around just comes down to honest talks about where we’re actually going and what’s in it for them down the road.

In my one-on-one, I focus on what they want for themselves. When I connect their goals to our team’s targets, they stop just showing up and start pitching new ideas.

Honest Talks Align Goals and Keep Talent

Robert Pace
President, World Trade Logistics

My take on career cushioning is you can’t stop it and nor should you try.

People usually start quietly interviewing because something in their day-to-day life isn’t working, not because they’re disloyal or fickle.

As a leader, our job isn’t to police loyalty, it’s to fix the reasons that make people feel like they need a backup plan.

In my experience, the biggest retention wins come from simple, consistent habits: clearer expectations, removing daily friction points, and making sure top performers know they’re valued.

When people feel seen, supported, and actually growing, they stop looking over the fence.

Instead of policing career cushioning itself, we need to police issues that lead to it.

Fix Root Causes, Not the Cushioning

Frederic S
Co-Founder, RemoteCorgi

We’re hearing more about career cushioning these days and it has become a normal part of modern work, especially in remote-friendly industries.

People aren’t quietly interviewing because they’re disloyal – they’re doing it because the job market feels unstable.

Layoffs can happen with little warning, companies pivot quickly, and many employees have lived through at least one unexpected restructuring.

Cushioning is simply a way to feel prepared, the same way companies build runway or diversify revenue streams.

For leaders, the instinct is often to feel frustrated or betrayed. But in my experience at RemoteCorgi, career cushioning is usually a symptom, not the root problem.

When high performers start exploring outside opportunities, it’s typically because they’re sensing misalignment (ie: unclear expectations, limited growth paths, or a culture that’s shifted without explanation). Rarely is it about salary alone.

The best response isn’t to tighten control or monitor behavior. It’s to create an environment where people no longer feel the need to cushion in the first place. That starts with honest, regular conversations about career trajectory, skill development, and what meaningful work actually looks like for them.

Give employees transparency about company direction, invest in their growth, and make sure their contributions are clearly recognized.

When people feel valued, supported, and connected to the bigger mission, they’re far less likely to keep one foot out the door.

Career cushioning might be a modern reality, but strong leadership can make it unnecessary.

Build Trust to Make Cushioning Unnecessary

Skandashree Bali
CEO & Co-Founder, Pawland

Career cushioning is often a symptom, not the root problem.

From my experience leading a fast-growing pet care platform, I’ve learned that when high-performing employees quietly explore opportunities elsewhere, it rarely means they’re disloyal, it usually means they no longer see a growth path, purpose, or psychological safety where they currently are.

Employees don’t suddenly wake up wanting a new job; they wake up realizing they’re not valued where they are.

I think leaders must stop treating career cushioning as a “threat” and instead view it as emotional data. If great people are preparing for something better, we should ask ourselves: Why don’t they feel that “better” exists here?

My advice for leaders:

Offer clarity on growth, not just encouragement.
“You’re doing great” is not a growth plan. People need transparent pathways on what comes next.

Have real conversations before exit interviews.
Most founders only get honest feedback when someone resigns. Change that. Ask openly:
“Is this still the place where you see your future? If not, what would need to change?”

Reward contribution, not just loyalty.
Top performers want progress, not stagnation. Career development should be earned, not delayed.

Normalize ambition, don’t punish it.
If people fear that expressing ambition risks their reputation internally, they’ll explore it externally.

When leaders build a culture where people feel seen, challenged, and supported, career cushioning naturally decreases.
Retention is never about making people stay, it’s about making them want to stay.

Career Cushioning Signals Growth Gaps Early

Bennett Maxwell
CEO, Franchise KI

When people on my franchise teams started looking elsewhere, it was usually because they felt stuck.
So we started talking openly about flexibility, like sabbaticals or temporary role changes. Suddenly, our best people would just tell us what they needed. That honesty saved us from losing a few key players.

When you sense someone is drifting, get curious instead of suspicious. You might actually find a way to keep them.

Open Conversations Turn Drift into Retention

The HR Spotlight team thanks these industry leaders for offering their expertise and experience and sharing these insights.

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From Layoff to Launchpad: Leaders on Choosing Your Next Move

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From Layoff to Launchpad: Leaders on Choosing Your Next Move

In the raw uncertainty following a layoff, when every option feels like a gamble—stay in the familiar lane or leap into something new—the mind races between fear of regret and the pull of possibility. 

But what if the real decision isn’t about choosing a path right away? 

What if it’s about creating small, low-risk experiments that let reality, not anxiety, reveal the answer?

On HRSpotlight, founders, CEOs, physicians, coaches, and career strategists share the hard-won guidance that helped them (and others) navigate this exact crossroads. 

They talk about asking better questions: What would you regret not doing in five years? Where do your unfair advantages lie? Which conversations make time disappear? 

They advocate quick, tangible tests—shadowing, side projects, micro-consulting, 30-day sprints—while auditing past frustrations for hidden clues to future fit. 

Their collective experience shows that clarity rarely arrives through endless analysis or panic applications; it emerges when you start moving, measuring traction, and trusting the signals your energy and the market send back. 

Discover how to turn a painful pause into deliberate momentum.

Read on!

Joseph Depena
Owner, VP Fitness

I got laid off from my corporate job before starting VP Fitness in 2011, and honestly, I was terrified. But instead of jumping into another corporate role just for security, I asked myself one question: “What would I regret NOT doing five years from now?” That clarity led me to open my first gym.

Here’s what actually helped me decide: I made a spreadsheet with two columns–one for staying in my industry (corporate wellness consulting) and one for pivoting to gym ownership. I didn’t just list pros and cons; I wrote down specific numbers: potential income year 1, year 3, year 5, plus hours per week I’d actually enjoy the work. The pivot column had lower initial income but 90% “work I’d love doing” versus 40% in my old field.

My advice? Give yourself 2 weeks to test your pivot idea in the smallest way possible before making it official.
I started training 3 clients at 6am before my corporate job to see if I actually liked it day-to-day, not just in theory. By week 2, I was waking up excited instead of hitting snooze–that told me everything.

One thing nobody talks about: sometimes “sticking with your path” IS the pivot.

When I franchised VP Fitness in 2023, people said I was changing direction, but really I was just scaling what already worked.

Don’t assume you need to blow everything up–sometimes the next chapter is already written in what you’ve already built.

Regret Test Guides Bold Career Moves

Lucas Simmons
CEO, Gener8 Media

I got laid off from the Navy in a way–my contract ended and I had to choose between re-enlisting as a submarine engineer or jumping into content creation with zero safety net.

I chose the scary path, and here’s what made the difference: I didn’t wait to feel “ready.”

The pivot vs. stay question is actually the wrong frame. The real question is: where are you already spending your mental energy? After my service, I was reading marketing books at 2am and studying creators obsessively–my brain had already voted. I just needed to trust that signal instead of forcing myself back into what felt “safe” but soul-draining.

What helped me move fast: I gave myself one micro-project to prove capability in the new space. I produced one short documentary for a local nonprofit while still taking “normal job” interviews. That single project became my proof of concept, landed me three paying clients, and showed me I could actually do this.

You need one small win in the direction you’re curious about–not a business plan, just proof you can execute.

The decision made itself within 90 days because I was *doing* instead of *deciding*.

If your new path experiments feel like work, go back to your industry. If they feel like playing you’d do for free, you’ve got your answer.

Trust Energy, Prove It with Action

Sonny Da Badger
Content Creator, Support Bikers

I’ve pivoted multiple times in my life–from commission sales at Six Bends Harley Davidson to building Support Bikers into a nationwide directory connecting bikers across 18+ states.

The sales job taught me something crucial: when you’re struggling on commission and need results, you either find your lane or you starve.

Here’s my take–don’t decide based on fear of starting over.

When I had to sell my bikes twice because “life happened,” I could’ve given up on riding entirely. Instead, I came back stronger each time because motorcycles were always my true path.

Ask yourself if you’re genuinely done with your industry or just done with that specific job.

The pivot decision gets easier when you look at what you naturally gravitate toward during tough times.

When I worked Harley sales and money was tight, I didn’t retreat–I leaned in and became “The Badger” so customers would remember and ask for me. That hustle taught me I thrive when I’m building community, which is exactly what Support Bikers does now.

Test your new direction before burning bridges. I didn’t quit my day job to start Support Bikers–my wife Angie and I built it as volunteers first, grew it into Facebook groups across multiple states, then brought on sponsors and moderators. By the time it became my focus, I already knew it had legs.

Lean Into Your True Path Fast

Lou Ezrick
CEO, Evolve Physical Therapy

I’ve completely rebuilt my career twice–once moving from Israel to New York, then again when I left traditional PT clinics to start Evolve in 2010.
Here’s what made the difference: I didn’t leave because I was lost. I left because I knew exactly what was broken.

When I worked at high-volume clinics in Brooklyn, I watched patients get 15-minute sessions with generic exercise sheets while billing ran the show.

I had already spent years in Tel Aviv treating terror victims and soldiers–I knew what real rehabilitation looked like.

The gap between what I could do and what the system allowed was eating me alive. That’s when I knew I had to build something different.

If you can articulate the specific problem you want to solve in your next move, pivot.

When I started Evolve, I could tell you exactly what would be different: one-on-one hour-long sessions, manual therapy instead of exercise handouts, taking complex cases other clinics rejected. Fourteen years later, that clarity is why we’re still here.

But if you’re just angry at your boss or tired of your commute–that’s not a vision, that’s just a bad Tuesday.

I’ve hired people fleeing corporate jobs who thought PT would be “more meaningful” but had no idea what treating chronic pain actually requires.

They quit within six months because meaning without skill match is just daydreaming.

Fix What Broke, Then Build Better

Chase McKee
Founder & CEO, Rocket Alumni Solutions

I got laid off from investment banking before starting Rocket Alumni Solutions, and honestly, the decision wasn’t about staying versus pivoting–it was about following where I’d already been experimenting.

I’d been tinkering with recognition software concepts on nights and weekends because I was genuinely curious about the problem, not because it was a calculated career move.

Here’s what actually mattered: I looked at which conversations made me lose track of time. When I talked to school administrators about donor recognition challenges, three hours felt like twenty minutes. When I discussed financial models with former colleagues, I was watching the clock. That attention pattern told me everything.

The practical test I used was spending $2,400 on a prototype before quitting anything.

We built a basic interactive display and got it in front of five schools. Two said they’d pay for a real version. That signal–people willing to give you money, not just encouragement–is worth more than any pros-and-cons list.

One thing nobody tells you: your current path gives you pattern recognition that transfers weird ways.

My banking background seemed useless for ed-tech, but those skills in reading financial statements helped me spot which schools had budget authority to buy quickly.

Sometimes the “pivot” is just pointing your existing toolkit at a different problem.

Test Ideas Before Committing Fully

Holly Gedwed
Owner, Southlake Integrative

I’ve worked with countless clients facing this exact transition, and what I’ve learned is that career uncertainty rarely exists in isolation–it’s usually tangled up with deeper questions about identity and self-worth.

When you lose a job, you’re not just losing income; you’re losing structure, purpose, and often a huge piece of how you define yourself.

Here’s what I see consistently: people who rush to “figure out the right path” without processing the actual loss end up making decisions driven by anxiety rather than values.

I had a client who’d been in finance for 12 years and got laid off–he immediately started applying to similar roles because that’s what he “should” do.

In our sessions using CBT and Narrative Therapy, we uncovered that he’d been miserable for years but couldn’t admit it because his career was his identity.

The breakthrough came when we worked on separating who he was from what he did. We identified his core values (creativity, autonomy, helping others) versus the external validation he’d been chasing. He ended up pivoting to consulting work that aligned with those values–not because it was the “safe” choice, but because he’d done the internal work first.

My practical advice: spend two weeks journaling every morning about what you actually want your days to look like, not what sounds impressive or safe.

Write down the activities that made you lose track of time in past roles. That pattern works–identifying what genuinely energizes you versus what drains you–is how you’ll know whether to pivot or stay.

The right career decision flows from knowing yourself first, not from analyzing market trends.

Journal Values to Unlock Clarity

Margaret Phares
Executive Director, PARWCC

I’ve spent over three decades watching thousands of professionals steer this exact crossroads at PARWCC, and here’s what the data shows: 82 million Americans are unhappy in their jobs (Statistica, 2024), and most got there because they never asked one critical question before accepting their role.

Before you decide to pivot or stay your course, ask yourself: “What must I be seen doing on the job to be acknowledged as the go-to expert by my boss, colleagues, and most importantly, myself?”

If you can’t–or don’t want to–do those specific things in your current field, no amount of job titles or salary will matter. You’ll just be serving time, not building a career.

I coach clients through this by having them conduct what I call “due diligence exploration.” Pull 10-15 job descriptions in both your current field and potential pivot areas, then identify the patterns in required competencies and daily tasks.

The O*Net database is gold for this. You’ll quickly see whether you’re genuinely excited about the work itself or just romanticizing the idea of change.

Here’s the honest part nobody wants to hear: most pivots fail because people focus 90% of their energy on the problem (fear, uncertainty, job loss) instead of solutions.

The hurricane survivors I worked with in Tampa who rebuilt successfully had written plans, assembled teams, and maintained hope-filled visions.

Your job search needs the same structure–a daily action plan, not a “winging it” approach.

Define Your Expert Role First

Jason Roberts
Owner, 12 Stones Roofing

I got laid off from my last job before starting 12 Stones Roofing, and honestly the military taught me something crucial: sometimes you need to assess the terrain before you decide which direction to move.

I spent two weeks doing roof inspections with a buddy for free just to see if I actually liked the work or just the idea of being my own boss.

Here’s what nobody tells you: sticking with your current path only makes sense if the fundamentals are still solid. When I transitioned from active duty to contracting, I didn’t abandon my core skills–leadership, accountability, attention to detail. I just found a new application.

If your industry is dying or you genuinely hate the work itself, no new role will fix that. But if you loved the work and just had a bad employer, staying in your lane with better standards might be the move.

The real test is this: can you name three specific things you’d do differently in a new industry versus three specific companies you’d want to work for in your current one? Whichever list comes faster and feels more authentic is probably your answer.

I could rattle off exactly how I’d run a roofing company with military precision before I ever had a single contract–that clarity told me everything.

One practical thing: take on a small project or consultation gig in the industry you’re considering.

I did storm damage assessments on weekends before committing full-time. Cost me nothing but time, and it proved I could handle the technical side and the customer-facing pressure.

Don’t make a permanent decision based on theoretical interest.

Test New Paths Without Burning Bridges

Mitch Johnson
CEO, Prolink IT Services

I’ve seen this exact situation play out dozens of times with clients over 20+ years in IT–and honestly, the answer isn’t about choosing between staying or pivoting.

It’s about testing your assumptions fast with minimal risk.

When COVID hit, I watched businesses freeze trying to make the “perfect” decision about their future.

The ones who survived didn’t pick a lane immediately–they ran quick experiments.

One restaurant client repositioned their catering service into meal kits within 72 hours. Another retail shop founded corporate gift boxes as their main revenue. They found out by *trying* small things, not planning forever.

Here’s what I’d do: spend one week identifying three problems you could solve in your current industry and three in a potential new one. Then spend the next week reaching out to 5-10 people in each space–former colleagues, LinkedIn connections, whoever–and ask what’s keeping them up at night. You’ll know within 10 days which conversations energize you and where people actually need help right now.

The market will tell you the answer faster than any career coach.

During the pandemic, we saw companies that took two months to “strategize” lose opportunities to competitors who tested and adjusted weekly.

Your layoff just gave you permission to move faster than you ever could while employed–use that advantage before it expires.

Quick Experiments Reveal the Real Answer

The HR Spotlight team thanks these industry leaders for offering their expertise and experience and sharing these insights.

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Making the Right Call: HR Experts on Pivoting vs. Staying the Course

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From Friction to Feedback: Leaders on Turning Policy Pushback into Progress

In the disorienting silence after a layoff, when panic urges you to apply everywhere and fear whispers to play it safe, many find themselves frozen between two paths: double down on what they know or risk everything on a bold pivot. 

But what if the smartest move isn’t choosing one immediately—what if it’s learning how to test both without burning time or savings?

On HRSpotlight, founders, CEOs, physicians, neuroscientists, and career strategists share hard-earned wisdom for this exact crossroads. 

They reveal why rushing into either “stay the course” or “reinvent completely” often backfires, and instead offer practical frameworks: running parallel experiments, auditing transferable advantages, identifying real market gaps, leveraging past frustrations as clues, and letting small tests—not big declarations—guide the decision.

Their insights cut through the noise, showing that the strongest comebacks rarely come from panic or perfection, but from deliberate clarity and courageous experimentation. 

Discover how to turn uncertainty into your most strategic career move yet.

Read on!

Chase Mckee
Founder & CEO, Digital Record Board

I’ve been laid off from investment banking and faced this exact question before starting Rocket Alumni Solutions.

Here’s what nobody tells you: the decision doesn’t need to happen immediately, but your process needs to start day one.

I spent my first two weeks after banking doing customer interviews–not for a specific business, just talking to athletic directors and school administrators about their problems.

Those conversations revealed a $3M+ opportunity I never would’ve seen if I’d rushed into either “find another finance job” or “start any business.”

The key was staying in motion without forcing a premature commitment.

What worked: I gave myself 60 days to run small experiments in both directions.

I took consulting calls in my old industry while prototyping our first digital recognition display. By day 45, the market told me which path had momentum–our prototype closed three pilot schools before I’d gotten a single consulting contract renewed.

My concrete advice: pick the timeframe you can financially afford (30, 60, or 90 days), then run parallel tests.

Apply to roles in your field while solving one small problem in an adjacent space.

Whichever generates real traction–whether that’s interview callbacks or paying customers–is your answer.

The market decides faster and better than your gut ever will.

Run Parallel Tests, Let Market Decide

Dr. Cheryl Twu
OBGYN, Wellness OBGYN

I left a decade-long hospital career in 2022 to open my own practice–not because I wanted to abandon OB-GYN, but because I saw patients getting lost in high-volume systems.

The transition terrified me, but I didn’t treat it as a complete reinvention. I took every skill from those hospital years–robotic surgery techniques, patient communication systems, even my Mandarin fluency–and built them into Wellness OBGYN’s foundation.

Here’s what made the difference: I started with one clear problem I could solve better independently.

Women kept telling me they felt rushed during appointments and wanted more time to discuss hormone concerns or fertility options. So I designed longer appointment blocks and added holistic elements like stress-management counseling.

My patient satisfaction scores hit near-perfect levels because I wasn’t chasing a completely new identity–I was refining what I already did well.

If you’re recently laid off, audit what frustrated you most in your last role. That frustration is usually pointing at a gap you’re uniquely positioned to fill.
I watched colleagues burn out trying to become something entirely different, while the ones who thrived identified one specific thing they could do better than their former employer.

Your current expertise is an asset, not a limitation–the question is whether your industry’s structure was the problem, not the work itself.

Turn Past Frustrations Into Unique Solutions

Luke Sanders
General Manager, RiverCity Sportswear

I’ve run the same company for 15+ years and watched hundreds of employees face this exact crossroads.

Here’s what I’ve learned watching people steer career transitions: the best indicator isn’t passion or skills–it’s where you have unfair advantages that others don’t.

When I took over RiverCity from my father, I didn’t have MBA-level strategy knowledge. What I had was 40 years of vendor relationships, equipment knowledge, and customer trust already built into the business. That existing infrastructure gave me 5x revenue because I wasn’t starting from scratch.

One of my best hires was someone laid off from corporate sales who pivoted into our industry specifically because his existing client relationships translated directly–he brought accounts with him.

Look at what transfers that competitors can’t replicate quickly. If you’ve got 8 years managing restaurant supply chains, a pivot to food manufacturing makes you immediately valuable.

A jump to software sales means you’re a rookie competing against people with established networks.

I’ve seen people chase “exciting” pivots and struggle for years because they abandoned the compounding advantage of experience.

The real question isn’t passion versus security–it’s where your existing reputation, relationships, and domain knowledge give you a 6-month head start over everyone else applying for the same opportunity.

Leverage Unfair Advantages Before Pivoting

Dr. Sydney Ceruto
Founder, MindLAB Neuroscience

Feeling torn after a layoff isn’t just normal—your brain’s anterior cingulate cortex is basically stuck toggling between options, which drains energy and cranks up anxiety.

I’ve had clients in similar spots, some itching to pivot, some desperate for stability. The trick isn’t to rush the decision but to zoom out and tap into your own “counterfactual processing,” a nerdy term for how we learn from what-might-have-beens and reroute old habits.

One executive I worked with used a week of careful journaling—not the tidy kind, just freeform thoughts—to spot her actual motivation for staying in her field versus chasing something new.

Turns out, the act of writing calms the amygdala and gives clarity to deeper values.

Here’s the deal: try experimenting with micro-experiences—one client shadowed different teams in adjacent industries, then compared how her ventro-medial prefrontal cortex responded to unfamiliar environments versus her old comfort zone.

Usually, the body’s stress signals will clue you in before your logical reasoning even catches up.

So don’t over-index on polished plans or big pronouncements; let your brain and gut guide you for a bit.

Pivotal choices rarely come from spreadsheets—they emerge when you let yourself experience, reflect, and occasionally misspell a word in those messy notes.

Journal & Experiment for Brain Clarity

Soozy Miller
Executive Career Advisor, Control Your Career

When facing a career crossroads after a layoff, I recommend that the job seeker figure out what they want to do next and then research what those types of companies are looking for and make sure their experience fits that criteria.

I’ve guided professionals through major transitions, including helping a financial services VP who took a decade-long sailing career break successfully return to corporate leadership at Nasdaq.

The key to his success was identifying how his leadership strengths from an entirely different field could translate to corporate environments.

A methodical, targeted job search approach that highlights your skills and impact rather than just industry experience can open doors in both familiar and new sectors.

Research Market Fit Before Any Move

Usama Chaudhry
CEO & Founder, Primus Workforce Ltd

Being laid off can be difficult, but it’s also a chance to reset your direction with clarity and purpose. Here’s how to decide whether to pivot or stay the course:

Assess Your Passion and Skills

Ask yourself what genuinely motivates you and where your strengths lie. If your current industry no longer excites you, consider exploring a new path. But if you still enjoy your work, focus on leveraging your existing expertise to grow further.

Research Market Trends

Study which industries are expanding and align with your goals. Pivoting is smart only when it positions you for long-term growth, not just short-term change.

Leverage Your Network

Reach out to mentors or peers for honest feedback. They can help you evaluate your options, share insights, and connect you with opportunities.

Test Before You Commit

Take on side projects, freelance work, or short-term contracts in a new field. This allows you to explore new directions without fully stepping away from your current path.

Weigh Your Risk and Finances

Consider your financial cushion and risk tolerance before making a big shift. Sometimes, staying put while upskilling can offer stability and progress without a complete restart.

Assess Passion, Test, Then Commit

Pamela Cournoyer
Leadership Development Coach & Trainer, Powerful & True, Inc

When facing the uncertainty after a layoff, I recommend taking time to thoroughly research your options before making any decisions.

In my own experience with career transitions, I found that gathering information about different paths and consulting with trusted colleagues in my network helped overcome the initial fear and confusion.

The key is to approach this decision methodically rather than reactively, weighing both the practical aspects of each choice and your personal fulfillment.

With careful consideration, you’ll find clarity about whether to stay your course or pivot to something new.

Research Deeply, Choose With Intention

Meenal Patel
HR/Finance Administrator, Sociallyin

It’s normal to feel pressure and move fast after losing a job. But then, slowing down helps you to make better choices.

You should think about which part of your past work made you feel proud and which one drained you.

If your skills still fit what the company needs, staying in the same field might be smart. If not, take your time.
Try a short course or a small side project to test something new.

The goal is to find work that feels right for the person you are today.

Slow Down, Reflect, Test New Paths

Harriet Cohen
Management Consultant Advisor, Training Solutions

Before making the decision to pivot or stay, self reflection is required.

Often people are afraid to leave an industry, so I ask them to list what they love and hate about every job they have ever had.

Then I ask them to take the strengths found in Clifton 2.0 to identify their strengths which are more than skills. From this information they can target what they want to do more of to enjoy working and feel satisfied.

Next review ads on LinkedIn or wherever to see who is looking for what they have. Network with people working at the desired company. Create a functional resume and cover letter focusing on the skills needed by that company and submit it.

Strengths & Loves Guide Your Next Step

The HR Spotlight team thanks these industry leaders for offering their expertise and experience and sharing these insights.

Do you wish to contribute to the next HR Spotlight article? Or is there an insight or idea you’d like to share with readers across the globe?

Individual Contributors:

Answer our latest queries and submit your unique insights:
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From Friction to Feedback: Leaders on Turning Policy Pushback into Progress

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From Friction to Feedback: Leaders on Turning Policy Pushback into Progress

In the evolving landscape of work, where flexibility once felt like a hard-won victory, certain HR policies continue to stir quiet (and sometimes loud) resistance from employees. 

Why do rules that seem logical on paper—return-to-office mandates, rigid performance reviews, mandatory tech adoption—often land like unwelcome intrusions? 

On HRSpotlight, candid executives, CEOs, HR advisors, and culture builders open up about the single policy that reliably generates the strongest pushback in their organizations, and the thoughtful, human-centered ways they’ve turned friction into alignment. 

From return-to-office mandates met with pleas for autonomy, to annual reviews that feel disconnected from daily reality, to AI tool rollouts that threaten professional identity—these leaders reveal how resistance rarely stems from laziness or entitlement. 

Instead, it signals a deeper need for trust, voice, and purpose. 

Their shared strategies—transparent “why” conversations, employee co-creation, flexible compromises, continuous feedback models, empathy-led transitions—demonstrate that the most resisted policies can become the most embraced when handled with clarity, inclusion, and genuine care. 

Explore which approaches are quietly reshaping compliance into commitment.

Read on!

Najeeb Khan
Head of Training & Events, Teamland

At Teamland, where we collaborate with HR leaders to improve engagement and team performance, one of the policies employees often push back against is the annual performance review process.

Many employees find it outdated or anxiety-inducing, especially when feedback feels one-sided or disconnected from their daily work.

The resistance usually reflects a deeper desire for ongoing feedback and recognition, not opposition to accountability.

We recommend addressing this by shifting to continuous feedback models supported by regular team check-ins and coaching sessions.

This approach helps HR foster transparency, strengthen trust, and turn performance reviews into growth conversations rather than evaluations.

Continuous Feedback Ends Annual Review Dread

Rebecca Trotsky
Chief People Officer, HR Acuity

Policies that try to control where or how people work are the ones employees push back on the most.

But there’s nuance here: Our people aren’t resisting work; they’re resisting a loss of trust and autonomy.

The way to address that resistance is to give teams agency. Let them define their own moments that matter for collaboration, strategy and connection, whether virtual or in person. Back it up with clear intent and make the experience meaningful.

When presence is purposeful, not mandated, employees feel trusted and engaged.

The future of work isn’t hybrid or remote—it’s human.

When we design work around trust and autonomy, people don’t just show up, they show up with purpose.

Agency Over Control Sparks True Engagement

Marcus Denning
Senior Lawyer, MK Law

As the CEO of MK Law I have experienced both the legal aspects of managing an organization as well as the human element of managing a diverse group of professional staff members.

Combining my experience of Commercial Leadership and my knowledge of Criminal Law provides me with a unique understanding of how to handle employee complaints and develop successful methods for removing obstacles that are present at the workplace.

One of the primary reasons that employees resist implementing many HR policies is due to the strictness of the annual performance evaluation process.

Employees typically believe that they are separate from their daily job and therefore will be frustrated by the evaluations.

There is a disconnect between the type of feedback employees receive during their annual evaluation and the employees’ work over the course of the entire year within the traditional model.

Continuous feedback is the best method to reduce or eliminate the resistance to implementing a new HR policy such as a shift to a continuous feedback model.

Managers must continuously communicate with employees regarding their performance and recognize employees for their accomplishments on an ongoing basis.

This continuous communication results in an employee who is more engaged, motivated and productive in their role.

Ongoing Feedback Replaces Stressful Yearly Reviews

David Weisselberger
Entrepreneur, Erase The Case

A common area of resistance among the workplace policies developed by Human Resource departments has been the long-standing, rigid performance evaluation process.

Due to the fact that these reviews are traditionally conducted annually, employees view them as being separate from their daily work responsibilities, which can lead to frustration and a disengaged workforce.

In response to this, I suggest moving away from the traditional performance evaluation model and toward a continuous feedback model.

Under this model, instead of waiting until formal performance review times, managers will provide employees with continuous, timely feedback based on each employee’s performance.

Early recognition of accomplishments and identification of opportunities for growth and development creates an environment where employees feel comfortable communicating openly about their job, while also allowing employees to make proactive changes to their work assignments as needed.

Timely Feedback Stops Annual Review Pushback

Nathan Wadding
CEO, Kindling Culture Agency

One HR policy employees often push back against is mandatory technology adoption—especially around AI tools.

While these policies are intended to increase efficiency, they can feel threatening to people whose expertise and identity are tied to their work. The resistance isn’t really about technology; it’s about purpose, pride, and security.

To address this, leaders need to focus on how the change happens, not just the outcome.

Start by defining what AI means to your organization and connect it clearly to your mission. Identify early adopters to model success, provide extra support for those less comfortable, and create forums for open conversation.

Most importantly, honor the experience people bring.

If you respect their value and invite them to help shape the transition, they’ll be far more likely to embrace it.

Honor Expertise to Ease AI Adoption

Hassan Elbiali
Owner, Agendapedia

One HR policy that consistently encounters pushback is mandatory return-to-office requirements after extended remote work periods.

Many employees value the flexibility and autonomy of remote work; sudden shifts can feel restrictive or dismissive of individual needs.
To address this resistance, HR leaders should prioritize transparent communication—clearly outlining the business rationale and listening to employee concerns.

Incorporating flexible hybrid options, gathering regular feedback, and actively involving staff in policy discussions builds trust and fosters buy-in.

By demonstrating empathy and a willingness to adapt, companies can ease the transition and maintain morale.

Empathy + Options Soften Return-to-Office Pushback

James Bernard
Principal Owner, Alcatraz Escape Games

I run haunted attractions and escape rooms in Utah, so I’ve dealt with plenty of team resistance–especially around our actor training requirements and safety protocols.

The biggest pushback I’ve seen is against time restrictions during team activities.

When we introduced the 5-minute rule at Alcatraz Escape Games (if your team is stuck for 5+ minutes without progress, you must ask for a hint), corporate groups initially hated it. They saw it as admitting defeat. But when I showed them completion data–teams using hints strategically had an 87% escape rate vs. 34% for teams who refused help–the resistance melted away.

People want to win more than they want to be stubborn.

My approach is to frame policies around success metrics, not compliance.

Instead of “you have to ask for hints,” I positioned it as “here’s how winning teams manage their 60 minutes.”

At Castle of Chaos, when we mandated that actors complete improv training, I didn’t sell it as a requirement–I showed them footage of guest reactions when actors adapted in real-time versus following scripts. Suddenly everyone wanted that training.

The key is making the policy feel like a competitive advantage for them, not a restriction on them. Show the scoreboard, not the rulebook.

Show the Scoreboard, Not the Rulebook

Gerald Michaels
Owner, Adept Construction

I’ve been running a family roofing company in the Chicago suburbs since 1997, so I’ve seen my share of policy battles with crews.

The one that gets the most pushback? Mandatory pre-job site photos and documentation. When we required every team to spend 15 minutes before starting work photographing existing conditions–not just the roof, but landscaping, driveways, AC units–the complaints were instant. Guys saw it as wasted time when they could be setting up ladders.

I fixed it by showing them the insurance claim we avoided in Downers Grove.

A homeowner tried to say we cracked their driveway during a tear-off, but our pre-job photos proved that crack existed before we arrived.

That single documentation saved us a $3,200 repair bill and kept our insurance rates from spiking. I told the crew: “You’re not taking pictures for me–you’re protecting yourself from getting blamed for damage you didn’t cause.”

The real shift happened when one of our longtime foremen had a customer claim we damaged their gutter during a Villa Park job. He pulled up his time-stamped photos showing the gutter was already dented, and the complaint died immediately. Now the same guys who fought the policy are the ones who take the most thorough photos–they realize it’s 15 minutes of protection against weeks of headaches and disputes that could tank their reputation.

Fifteen Minutes of Photos Beats Weeks of Headaches

The HR Spotlight team thanks these industry leaders for offering their expertise and experience and sharing these insights.

Do you wish to contribute to the next HR Spotlight article? Or is there an insight or idea you’d like to share with readers across the globe?

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In Conversation With Nicholas Wyman

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In Conversation With

Nicholas Wyman

Author

Attract, Retail & Develop: Shaping a Skilled Workforce for the Future

Hi Nicholas, thank you for joining us! Before we dive into “Attract, Retain & Develop”, please tell us about yourself and your current role.

Nicholas Wyman:

Thank you, it’s great to be here.

I’m Nicholas Wyman, a workforce practitioner and CEO of the Institute for Workplace Skills & Innovation America, where I focus on building skills-based career pathways that connect people to meaningful employment.

My work sits at the intersection of business, education, and public policy, helping employers solve talent shortages while creating opportunities for individuals. Over the past two decades, I’ve worked with employers across industries, and both private companies and government agencies, to rethink how they attract, develop, and retain talent.

What drives me is the belief that talent is universal, but opportunity is not. Employers have a powerful role to play in closing that gap.

What’s the origin story for your latest book, Attract Retain & Develop: Shaping a Skilled Workforce for the Future? How did it evolve from an idea to a tangible title? Tell us more about this journey.

 

Nicholas Wyman:

The idea for my latest book came directly from the frustrations I was hearing from employers everywhere. They were struggling to find talent, yet often overlooking capable people because of outdated hiring practices.

I realized there wasn’t a practical playbook that combined real-world workforce strategies with leadership and culture in a way that business leaders could immediately apply.

The book evolved over several years as I gathered case studies, tested ideas through our programs, and refined what actually works in practice.

My goal was to create something actionable rather than that leaders could use to build resilient, future-ready teams.

Your book argues that traditional hiring models are outdated. What specifically is broken in the way most organizations recruit today, and what mindset shift do HR leaders need to make first to truly “disrupt” their approach?

 

Nicholas Wyman:

The biggest problem is that many organizations hire based on traditional proxies for talent, like degrees, credentials, and job titles, instead of actual capability.

This approach unintentionally filters out incredible candidates who have the skills but not the traditional ‘pedigree’. It also slows hiring and contributes to persistent talent shortages.

The mindset shift is moving from credential-based hiring to skills-based hiring, asking, “What can this person do, and how can they grow?” rather than “Where did they go to school?”

Once leaders make that shift, they open the door to a much broader, more capable talent pool.

Your own career path, from chef to global workforce practitioner, is unconventional. How did that experience shape your philosophy on talent, and what can employers learn from non-linear career journeys when evaluating candidates?

 

Nicholas Wyman:

Starting my career as a chef taught me things that you can’t learn from a text book: soft skills like time management, communication and team-building, and critical thinking. Kitchens are performance-based environments, you either deliver or you don’t, and that shaped how I view talent.

My transition into workforce development reinforced that many of the most capable people willing to take initiative and problem-solve come from non-traditional backgrounds. Employers who overlook non-linear career paths miss out on adaptable, resilient, and highly motivated individuals.

Today’s workforce is far more dynamic, and hiring practices need to reflect that reality.

Through your work with the Institute for Workplace Skills & Innovation America, you’ve helped create thousands of skills-based career pathways, including apprenticeships for people with disabilities. What lessons from those programs can HR leaders apply to build more inclusive and effective talent pipelines?

 

Nicholas Wyman:

One of the biggest lessons is that inclusive hiring isn’t charity, it’s actually smart business with a proven ROI for both individual businesses and for the economy, and our society, at large.

When employers focus on skills and provide structured pathways like apprenticeships, they uncover talent that was previously overlooked. We’ve seen firsthand that with the right support and mentorship, individuals thrive and become highly loyal, high-performing employees.

Another key lesson is that partnerships matter. It’s key to work with community organizations and training providers, as that reduces the burden on employers. Inclusion expands your talent pool and strengthens your organization at the same time.

Many employers are concerned about automation and AI reshaping jobs. Based on your research and workforce experience, what skills should organizations be prioritizing now to future-proof both their workforce and their business?

 

Nicholas Wyman:

AI is transforming work, but the real challenge that comes with utilizing this technology is ensuring trust, good judgment, and human capability. The risk isn’t just that AI will replace tasks, but that people may over-rely on it without critical thinking.

That means the most important skills are human skills: adaptability, communication, ethical judgment, and problem-solving. Technical literacy is important, but the ability to question, interpret, and apply technology responsibly is what creates value.

Organizations that invest in these durable human skills will be far better positioned to navigate whatever comes next.

As an author, what are 3 other books you’d recommend to our audience? Why?

Nicholas Wyman:

As someone who works at the intersection of workforce strategy, business performance, and human capability, I tend to look beyond mainstream HR titles. Talent systems rarely fail because of policy. They fail because of behavior, stress, culture, and leadership blind spots.

Three books that have shaped my thinking:

Atomic Habits by James Clear

Clear’s central argument is simple: outcomes are driven by systems, not willpower. That applies directly to organizations. Engagement, productivity, and inclusion are the result of repeated behaviors reinforced over time. If leaders want change, they must design better systems and reward the right daily actions. Culture is not a slogan. It is an institutionalized habit.

The Mindbody Prescription by John Sarno

This book explores how chronic stress manifests physically. In organizations, that same stress shows up as burnout, disengagement, and turnover. Too many workplaces wear chronic pressure as a badge of honor. It is not. It is a performance tax. Sustainable output requires healthier environments and leaders who understand the cost of hidden strain.

The Gifts of Imperfection by Brené Brown

Brown’s work on vulnerability and courage is ultimately about trust. And trust drives performance. Innovation, accountability, and retention depend on psychological safety. High standards and empathy are not opposites. The best organizations combine both. When people feel safe to speak up and grow, performance follows.

For me, workforce strategy is not just about hiring models or talent pipelines. It is about energy, resilience, and behavior at scale. Organizations that understand that outperform those that treat talent as a transactional process.

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Author of Attract, Retain & Develop, Nicholas “Nick” Wyman began his career as an award-winning chef. Transitioning from the culinary arts to the business world, Nick leveraged his leadership experience to become a globally recognized workforce practitioner. As the CEO of the Institute for Workplace Skills and Innovation Group (IWSI), he redefines career pathways, transforming how the modern world views skills and success. Under his leadership, IWSI has ignited over twenty thousand skill-based career paths. Nick is the author of two books and contributes to Forbes, Fast Company, the MIT Press Journal, and CNBC.

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